While subsonic ammunition surely does have its benefits when it comes to covert operations, close range, and personal defense, this kind of bullet is not ideal for the big game hunter. The preceding is a specially-adapted excerpt from Glens newest book, Americas Gun: The Practical AR15. Somewhere in south Texas I think makes or sells M1A actions, barrels and other parts. NmE5NjE4NzI1MTU2M2FjYWM3NDE4NTAzODdlOWYwZmVmMGYxZDUxNjllOWE5 It has a adjustable gas block with two settings, smaller opening and larger opening. Unique powders optimized for subsonic use result in a low flash signature, ideal for either suppressed or unsuppressed performance. I probably would since you've already got the 6.8 spc rifles. Shooting quickly and quietly is not always as important as shooting flat with the appropriate ballistic energy to put down your target effectively. I don't think the 300blk is the best supersonic only round. by bluebird Fri May 27, 2011 1:43 am, Post I'd recommend holding onto the subsonic .300blk ammo until you get an approved tax stamp for a suppressor. ODE1ZDM1NjM4Zjc1Yzg1OGZlODViYzdmMGM1Y2RkZWI1NDVhODQxZjI4YmRl margin-top: 6px; Fact is, they are not out just yet - so you probably need a 5.56mm upper for now. Hornady Subsonic Ammunition designed for accuracy and performance below the speed of sound now comes in both rifle and handgun loads. Even a thin-jacketed traditional match bullet wont expand at subsonic velocities, it may tumble, but may act more like an FMJ until it becomes unstable. Please be respectful of others. Subsonics are expensive and their performance is marginal compared to supers. Y2JlY2Q1YmJhNWYxMjYxZTFhNDI1Yzg0N2U1MmMzZGJlY2U3MTk5ODY0MTdk For close range pig-hunting, it's a game changer. 300 Blackout Suppressed With Subsonic Ammo - YouTube 0:00 / 1:22 300 Blackout Suppressed With Subsonic Ammo Cory Meals 364 subscribers Subscribe 43K views 5 years ago 300 Blackout Suppressed. You dont have an issue with your 300blk if it wont run subsonic ammo UNSUPPRESSED! Factory ammo is unreasonable high, but reloads can be as cheap as 223. You must log in or register to reply here. Most subsonic blackout ammo uses a bullet in the 200-grain range, and, of course, .308 diameter. 300 Blackout Supersonic vs Subsonic - What is the difference? Being able to start a fight quietly, and then with a quick change of a magazine, you can have a full-power round. Reason for that is because the 300 BLK uses almost all the same AR parts used for a rifle chambered in .223/5.56mm. [img]http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa221/toobmonkey/MedSig.jpg[/img]. I hope this was helpful, cheers. .223/5.56 is what you should buy. The idea that you can have a single setup of buffer mass, gas port size and gas system length that will handle 28kpsi unsuppressed subsonic loads and suppressed 55kpsi supersonic loads equally well is ludicrous on its face. All Rights Reserved. Have you had success getting good function from a .300 Blackout? Despite larger bullet expansion size the temporary and permanent wound cavities of expanding subsonics are typically much smaller than expanding supersonics. A little edgy. Yes. The farther down the barrel the gas port is located, the lower the pressure will be by the time the bullet passes the port and the gas enters the port. AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own. TNVC/NGI Giveaway: 15 winners with over $7000 worth of prizes!! Subsonic .300 Blackout is plenty powerful, in my estimation, and with radically better shootability than a higher-pressure carbine loading. The difference between subsonic rounds and supersonic rounds, as implied by their etymology, remain in their ability to break the sound barrier determined by how fast the projectile travels. by 300Blk Fri May 27, 2011 7:25 am, Post First, it has to run the subsonic. Although still considered to be on the higher end of the price spectrum, supersonic 300 BLK is the slightly more affordable option sitting at $0.75 - $1.15 per round. Subsonics cycle with a suppressor almost universally with all barrel makes. AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types. With high-quality cartridge cases and primers, Subsonic Ammunition offers the performance and accuracy shooters have come to expect from Hornady. Given your situation, a "pistol" setup may be in order. Please keep it civil people. 220gr .300 Blackout is extremely quiet, and competes with the famous MP5-SD in terms of stealthiness. As everyone does know, it takes most of a year to get the ATF tax stamp approval for a suppressor, which means youre stuck with a pistol that you cant use, without damaging it, for a long time. For precisely this reason, hunting with subsonic 300 blackout is generally not advised in most scenarios unless youre taking on wild pigs or smaller sized game within short distances. Some specialize in long range shooting and some are biased toward short range stuff. Heavy for caliber bullets are often used to off-set lack of velocity and still provide great short to medium range performance. I killed 2 deer this season with my 16" 300BLK. Originally born of a US SOCOM contract with Advanced Armament Corporation (hence the.300 AAC Blackout name), our nations Special Operations Forces wanted a weapon system that could switch between sub-sonic and super-sonic rounds effectively and quickly, from a compact package, while not having to move away from the M4 based platforms they were already familiar with. by hugegator Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:53 pm, Post 80% Arms sells AR-15 and .308 80% Lower Receivers, 80% Lower Jigs and other accessories which allow you to legally build a firearm at home in most states. Most subsonic blackout ammo uses a bullet in the 200-grain range, and, of course, .308 diameter. First, Im always willing to risk boring knowledgeable readers with really basic information because its important to start at the start. if running nothing special and you just want a 30 bore get a PSA 7.62 x 39 upper kit. For the vast majority of applications, supersonic ammunition is the most practical choice, and it has the added benefit of being cheaper as well. If I couldn't suppress or SBR, I probably not even go with another AR. There is Barnes RRLP in 300 BLK, though it may end up as LE/Mil only. Supersonic 300BLK can have nearly three times the kinetic energy as a subsonic 300BLK. The additional bullet weight keeps the rounds from breaking the sound barrier, and gives them as much energy as possible. Not sure, probably standard buffer and buffer spring ? Thank you for a clear and consisce desciption. We utilize state of the art 5-axis CNC machines to mill all our .308 and AR-15 80 percent lower receivers to incredibly precise tolerances using premium billet aluminum. All comments are held for moderation and will appear after approval. On my build, I chose to accept the one-trick-pony approach. For the love of goodness gentleman, I wish I didnt have to make this post but Ive seen about 10 on this subject in the past week. I also do not like the lack of adjusting information. [emailprotected], Reduced risk of over penetration from a pass through projectile. Based on these points, for stopping a human target as quickly as possible, what would favor the subsonic .300 over the 45? NjZmMjljMGU3ZmYwMTE4YjM1NmVlNzEwZmQ4YjdhN2VhZWEyZWRmM2Y1YmJl Civil? I have 2 16's, bolt and one AR. I reload all my stuff so factory ammo prices aren't a consideration for me. Supersonic 300BLK can have nearly three times the kinetic energy as a subsonic 300BLK. by JasonAAC Fri May 27, 2011 10:14 am, Post Honestly, my main interest is in the short, subsonic, suppressed, select fire 300 black. Introducing the latest products from the worldwide leader in ammunition. NDNkYTI4NTI2ODg2OGViYTk3ZjNlZTZlOGRjMzQ0NjdiN2E1Mzg1YzlkZjUx There's no purpose in running subs uncanned. If you want to be ninja quiet, then shoot subsonics. If you want a combat rifle with a hard-hitting round, .300blk has you covered. Supersonic is your traditional rifle round. MTk0M2U1ZTMxOGQyNTJjOTE5YzU1MTJiZjA2NTkwZDJkNWU2OTBiM2IzYTMw Thats another debate for others to work through in other articles, but its my story and Im sticking to it. I have multiple 16 inch barrels in 300BLK and they work perfect. Oh, my only hog of this year so far was with a 16" Noveske 300BLK. SILENCER SATURDAY #37: Subsonic 300BLK Shootout. OK, so it is a ridiculous thing to open up ports and basically ruin perfectly good barrels. The loudest factors from using suppressed subsonic ammunition comes from the sound of the bullet impact and the bolt carrier group cycling back and forth (when using AR platforms). 300BLK is great if and ONLY if you are a reloader. I have the SA Victor .308 rifle with the adjustable gas block. Buy American Eagle 300BLK 200gr Suppressor. When I first built a .300, I couldnt get it to run reliably with bolt-over base failures, double feeds, etc. The price of subsonic 300 BLK now averages $1.15 - $2.85 per round (Consider this cost if you plan on using subsonic 300 BLK to shoot follow up shots rapidly on target). So if youre set on trying out 300 Blackout yourself, complete a build with your own 80 percent lower receiver today with an easy to use universal From heavy subsonic loads to supersonic rounds, both with and without the silencer attached; we experienced no malfunctions of any kind". A suppressed supersonic load will have a lot more gas coming back into the action compared to an unsuppressed subsonic load (these two examples are the extremes). The .300 AAC blackout has the advantage of having a more effective shape for delivering energy, expanding, and tumbling through vital organs, but it's main advantage while subsonic is it's quiet report, and the ability to make multiple hits on target very rapidly. Subsonic Blackout has a radically milder blast and report than 5.56 or supersonic Blackout. Here is a great example of shooting 300 Blackout suppressed and unsuppressed using supersonic and subsonic ammo from Class 3 Ordnance. Even the SOF guys will still do 99% of their gunfighting with supersonic rounds. No big surprise guys but Short barrel+weak ammo+ no backpressure=shit reliability ps. line-height: 1.5; It doesn't mean it isn't perfectly effective, just that you're not taking advantages of what makes it special. Additionally, the lighter recoil also allows users to make faster hits on target in succession. Re: Is 300BLK worth it in supersonic unsuppressed ONLY appl. Subsonic is also preferred where the hunter wants to limit the maximum range of projectiles. As others have pointed out, if you're going to take the longer barrel and not suppress it (or shoot supers suppressed) then there are other calibers that work well in the AR15 platform and give better performance. by jason Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:58 pm, Post One trick to get reliable subsonic function in a gun thats been built around more ideal supersonic function is lightening up the back end of the system. Long grooves in its gilding metal jacket combine with the bullets flat profile and the patented Flex Tip insert within its hollowpoint cavity to help it expand reliably at low velocities. -webkit-user-select: none; Ive written thousands of words about its evils and ways to lower it for other applications. Pretty much, its for those who want a bigger bullet in an AR-15 with a minimum of technical distractions (some call them problems). ZDJlOTQ0YzNkMDAyZTc2YjY5MWFjY2Q4MzIxOGVlNTAzYTQ1ZWZlMmU0MTQ0 I enjoy them just as much as the short ones. Done like that, the relatively tiny amount of fast-burning propellant behind that honking .30-caliber bullet gets put to work effectively because the pressure at the gas port is higher. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win. Unsuppressed, a significant muzzle flash will occur that may hamper low light visibility, the report may cause hearing damage and temporary disorientation. Besides several Blackouts I shoot with short bbls and suppressed, I also have some 16" rifles. But I think I would rather go with the .30 Remington AR cartridge instead now. The last one is especially critical in the context of the 2021 market for firearms, accessories and ammunition. But while energy transfer is very important it does not tell the entire story. 300BLK is the most versatile centerfire cartridge in existence and an excellent HD choice. 308 caliber bullets have the greatest range of options of any caliber. MmI2MDAzY2VkZmQ4MzZiZmU1OWQzZjU2ZDIxMmM4OTBjMGM2NDQ3YWEzNTUz Home defense in its most typical form is about getting yourself and your loved ones off the X. It is also great supersonic for hunting. Until I started reading forums, I was unaware that .300BLK is expected to not cycle in a 9" unsuppressed rig, so I wanted to make it work properly with the only available ammo. You seem to have found a sweet setup in this article that does not have any feed issues. The XTP bullet in Subsonic Handgun has built a world-class reputation for accuracy and stopping power. by offsidewing Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:34 pm, Post That said, the 30-30 has killed more white tail deer in North America than all other cartridges combined. Is 300 blk worth it unsuppressed? Thoughts or ideas? NetJnkie 6 yr. ago Oh duh. "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because. If you are set on wasting them though, you can get a hatebrake or a similar compensator that boosts the pressure. If no SBR, do an 8" pistol. I got one just to have another round to play with. Y2ZiMWUwMjljYjc2NjMyZDRjOTA0ZTkxMzk2MGEzMWVmMjFmYWVlOTdjZjFm These lowered stats can result in unethical game kills and can lead to animal suffering even if you think you made a clean shot. I got into .300 BLK because it excels in short rifles and has subsonic ammo for suppressor use. Most factory .300 Blackout subsonic loads are a little more powerful than a routine .45 ACP handgun loading, if we're going on (the admittedly incomplete) calculated energy figures. I had it 6 months before I got the silencer and put 500-700 rounds through it.. And, time is also ticking away with respect to the flaming consumption of the propellant. I obviously misread. For those 'go loud' engagements you could opt for supersonic rounds to take the ballistic advantage of full power rounds. Use factory loads and factory brass for reloading. We also offer our patented AR-15 and .308 Easy Jigs which is the first 80% lower jig that makes it ridiculously easy for a non-machinist to finish their 80% lower in under 1 hour with no drill press required. These two factors make suppressed supersonic rounds very effective and an attractive choice in confined close quarter environments. Subsonic 300 Blackout holds more power than 919mm while retaining equal ratings of decibel while suppressed. If youve chosen 300BLK to help accomplish this goal, youre on the right track. So while someone may not be able to pinpoint where they are being shot at from, they're still going to be very aware that they ARE being shot at. Yes it does shine suppressed. My research turned up the fact that without the ability of the high velocity of a supersonic .300 to transfer hydrostatic shock you will merely be punching .30 caliber rounds through your target. Thats port pressure. Not technically the same as chamber pressure, but its from the same source. Subsonic 300 Blackout has some of the best terminal ballistics of any subsonic round. An argument for another day. Subsonic 300 Blackout ammo is effective for the former two characteristics but falls short in almost every other category: effective range, terminal ballistics, bullet trajectory and cost efficiency. I prefer the looks of the Shockwave Blade type brace if you need to do a brace. Fact of the matter, it is AK ballistics in the reliable AR platform. Now I want a 16". I was shooting subsonics, while my suppressor sits in the gun store safe waiting for some schmuck to rubber stamp a form, because they're all that I could find. Speaking of adjustable gas blocks, dont run one on a pistol-length system. font-weight: 400; So, despite what Ive heard from many theorizing, you really cant run supersonic and subsonic loads through the same gun, with no modifications having been made to the gun. I am planning a .300 BLK as soon as the XCR is available, and I am only interested in subsonic/suppressed. Most factory .300 Blackout subsonic loads are a little more powerful than a routine .45 ACP handgun loading, if were going on (the admittedly incomplete) calculated energy figures. Theres not enough gas in subsonic, or theres too much gas in supersonic, for both to function through a system set up more ideally for one or the other. I dont know if it will have the short comings of flame cutting as listed above. Suppressed 5.56 is around 135db. Post Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. There are a couple other AR conversions that work better at being supersonic only. 2 were with 300BLK SBR's. These are not as common now as they once were, but an AR-15 carrier doesnt have as long of a full-profile section on its body as does the USGI-standard M16-format carrier (which is far and away the most common now). This caliber has used up all the powder at about 9 of barrel, so it really affects carbine length systems imo. Differences Between Supersonic and Subsonic. Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited. Interested in picking up your own suppressor device? It cracks me up, that the 320 pound, crisco leaking computer chair army speaks of subjects that they "read" on the internet. NjI2MDFhZjNkMzY1NTA2MTQxNDNlYjJmMDNhNTQwOWM1ODc5MGRhZWY4Njlk The 300BLK also suppresses very well. That's why I have 3. vertical-align: middle; by doubloon Fri May 27, 2011 8:16 am, Post This can actually vary a fair bit depending on altitude, temperature, and humidity, but in general, 1100fps is the determining number used in the firearms industry to differentiatethe two. by doubloon Fri May 27, 2011 9:49 am, Post Because of the lower pressures at the muzzle, and the lack of a supersonic report, shooting "subs" is completely hearing safe and comfortable for the operator and those around them. To make the latter work, the . 300 BLK has been considered a rather expensive round even before the logistical infrastructure was swamped and manufacturing capabilities were struck by limited staff and astronomical demand. Subsonic Handgun utilizes tried-and-true XTP bullets that expand reliably at subsonic velocities. OWEyN2JmMTE0ZGM2MzkxYjdhZDc1N2EzYzNhOGQzY2I4NDNkNTJkYjI1MDcy Depending on the load, some 300 blackout subsonic rounds are quiet enough to comfortably use without ear protection. But if you are spending close to $1 per round for quality factory ammo, I thought it might be a good idea to take a look at some actual decibel meter comparisons between between top brands. Now I understand better, what Ill need to do if I want to run subsonic (the upper kit I purchased is set up for supersonic). Re: Why run subsonics without a suppressor. padding: .375rem .75rem; Your access to this site was blocked by Wordfence, a security provider, who protects sites from malicious activity. ZWQ5ZjU3NDlhM2VmNTg2NmYzZmJkOGM2YjFlNzU5MzQ2YTljNzhmNDBhYjc4 Given equal penetration a larger bullet will damage more tissue and cause more bleeding. Scan this QR code to download the app now. I love my 300 Pistol. NjZlZTcwZjdmYjA0OTI3OTM0OTcwZmVlOTk5ZjFhOGJhNDRiZTY0MDE4MWJh Is 300BLK worth it in supersonic unsuppressed ONLY appl.? Check out my Youtube Channel, TWANGnBANG. Supersonic .300 Blackout ammunition replicates the ballistics of 7.62x39mm, used by classic AK pattern rifles, but with cartridge dimensions designed with the AR-15 magazine in mind it ALMOST made sense a year or more ago when all you could find was factory subsonic ammo Graphic design and branding: https://www.facebook.com/VisualGravy. I cut a couple even with my shorter gas system on the subsonic. A combination of 300 blackout subsonic rounds and a suppressor device means being able to retain all your senses in an outdoor environment while even dumping your magazine includes the added benefit of not disturbing others within the area. I dont think thats really a factor. HI. The .300blk round has skyrocketed in popularity the past decade. margin-bottom: 10px; NTM5OTc1MGMzYzdhYTJiZGM5NmZjOGU0NWNhYjI0NDhjZjc5NWJjYWIxOThm There is no noise from the action or any created via the ejection process as noticed in a semi automatic firearm. America's Ultimate Shooting Sports Discounter, Subsonic Success: Getting Good Function From a .300 Blackout, The preceding is a specially-adapted excerpt from, Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window), Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window), Click to share on Pinterest (Opens in new window). Now, there are some very effective flash suppressors out there, but they dont take a bit off the noise. }, Editor In Chief- TFB Same with the 16" 7.62x39 upper I got from PSA. 300BLK comes in two flavors: supersonic and subsonic. A heavier grain, typically around 180-220 grains, introduces more weight to the projectile, preventing the bullet from exceeding speeds that would break the sound barrier like a supersonic round normally would. So if youre set on trying out 300 Blackout yourself, complete a build with your own 80 percent lower receiver today with an easy to use universal. The can boosts the pressure and affects trajectory. Just recently purchased a pistol upper kit for thr build Im working on. You might get away with it for a subsonic setup as described here, but since its so close to the chamber, the gas is at full fury and will wreck the valve apparatus in short order (flame-cutting). Probably the most prolific in recent years is the .300 blackout, designed specifically to accommodate both subsonic and supersonic loads in the same rifle with minimal adjustments. The only issues Ive had with my AAC barrel is THE with cut brass. I dont know how many have fired a 5.56 AR-15 carbine inside a room, but its sensory overload. At 200 yards, the 60.5 inch bullet drop of a .45 round is similar to a .300 Blackout subsonic round. Based on my work it's very tricky to get subsonics to cycle a standard-length XCR-L action, even . We want you, our readers, to be able to make informed decisions. Such is not the case. It cured the problem with supersonics, so I quit while I was ahead and only shoot those. I had read those can cause more fed issue than FMJ in the AR platform. text-align: center; That is what AAC designed the 300 blk to do and they know how to do it. It may not display this or other websites correctly. I forgot to say, 175 grain 3-gun ammo is being loaded right now - but only 10,000 rounds at first, so none will be for sale. You don't have an "issue" with your 300blk if it won't run subsonic ammo UNSUPPRESSED! Hornady Subsonic Ammunition doesnt have the loud report of a supersonic round, and paired with a suppressor, its even quieter. In general, most people prefer a self-defense rifle bullet that expands rapidly and doesnt over-penetrate so that bullets wont travel through multiple walls or similar structures. An M1A would be cool too have, but going custom on my first buy. Almost forgot about ammo. Ballistically I agree that the 300BLK doesn't outperform much of anything when it comes to 16" and unsuppressed, but it kills deer out to at least 200 yards just fine, and that's what I want. Products manufactured by 80% Arms carry a lifetime warranty against manufacturing defects. Winchester Super Suppressed Ammunition 300 AAC Blackout Subsonic 200 Grain Open Tip Box of 20. If I could not go suppressed, I'd pick another caliber. I've been tying to keep an eye on 300BLK supersonic development, for me what comes out of supersonic in the next months will tip the scales on whether I go 308Win or 300BLK on my next purchase. How to Assemble and Use the GST-9 Infinity Jig. Discussion about rifles in 300 AAC BLACKOUT (7.62x35mm), hosted by the creator of the cartridge. Your discussions, feedback and comments are welcome here as long as they are relevant and insightful. Bleed off/non restrictive, finger adjustable, battle proven, reliable. FNG / New Forum Member today, registering just after my first range session with my new SA SAINT .300 Blackout pistol. If I couldn't do short with 300blk I would have zero interest in it. Shopping with us is absolutely safe - you never have to worry about credit card safety when shopping here Share your latest AR build or photos from the range with #RangeDayFriday for a chance to win a new firearm! But that's exactly what it was designed for. 300BLK is the most versatile centerfire cartridge in existence and an excellent HD choice.
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